Curse

Falconer · Mar 13, 2007, 12:47 AM // 00:47

Just figured I'd ask others if they have tried this arrangement and their thoughts experience ideas for improvement. I've only played w/ it a little bit in PvE to see how it plays.

I stumbled across elemental flame in the fire line. In fire itself, all the hexes already cause burning so it's not very functional to the fire elly. But it's a lot cheaper and more spammable than say soul barbs, and it can do more damage, although a lot of your burning durations will overlap limiting it's efficiency somewhat. Earth and air lack for hexes to really use it with, but water is filled to the brim w/ them.

Elemental Flame: 5,1,5 Hex: For 5...17 seconds, whenever an Elemental Hex ends on target foe, that foe is set on fire for 1...3 seconds.
Really, anything from 4-12 fire magic seems workable (2-3s burn w/ extending durations meaning you need to recast it less, can keep it going on multiple targets)
EG: 11+1 fire, 11+2 or 11+4 water, 8+1 energy storage.

Reasons: it's a deep hex as you're always covering it w/ a water hex or you'll cover your water hex w/ it. If they remove the water hex early, it only triggers the burning sooner. A 3s burn is 42 armor ignoring degen which is practically as much or more as most water hexes do up front! Especially those dealing w/ snaring.

The problem to me seems mostly one of that it's really hard to pack up your skill bar w/ it...

EG: elemental flame, icy shackles*/shatterstone*, GoLE, water attune, then start adding 4 more.....pretty much any water snare works here. And you can even add in items such as armor of mist to enhance your own kiting ability and armor.

Also, you really seem to lack for good low cost, low recharge, water hexes to use to trigger it with. You need to bring something like shard storm at it's 10s recharge to even consider it. There's the PB AoE frozen burst at 5s recharge, but again it's PB AoE, and not cheap at 15energy.

Interesting, ice prison doesn't end when a target is set burning. It only ends on 'fire damage'. I was amused by that one (tried using it to snare one target long term, while I worked over another w/ multiple shorter duration hexes). Though deep freeze was far more tasty than ice prison... w/ it's large AOE snare w/ long duration.

Part of the problem I'm trying to work out here is how to fit steam into this mix. Mostly for use against paragons and rangers will be a problem no matter what. As I see it a water elly who can keep 2-3 melee types alone constantly snared isn't too shabby. But blind adds a bit more utility as well as the ability to stand against say a paragon, or keep an assassin at bay provided you can pull some exterior healing.

Thoughts, feedback, experiences appreciated....

Trylo · Mar 13, 2007, 01:20 AM // 01:20

hehe i went E/N for [skill]Soul Barbs[/skill] and [skill]Elemental Flame[/skill] with [skill]Shatterstone[/skill] in RA, its definitely fun, but not very useful.

you dont need elemental flame... when you come down to the basics its just not useful enough IMHO. you could fit in another snare, slow down more people, have them deal less damage.

elemental flame is also solo-target oriented. this means you will be spiking a single target. with water magic. gg <_<. you COULD be snaring, preventing massive melee trains and you decide to do 28 extra damage to their monk? i dont see how it is really that useful. for pve/ra, go for it, its fun... but in pvp i wouldnt really consider it.

Ensign · Mar 13, 2007, 05:15 AM // 05:15

I think that skills that don't do anything are bad.

It's basically a weak version of Parasitic Bond, in a line and a profession that doesn't want cover hexes at all.

Peace,
-CxE

Glitched · Mar 13, 2007, 08:22 PM // 20:22

Actually, I disagree. A couple of weeks ago I ran a really painful ice spike in RA. It kills quicker than most ele spikers.

Glyph of Elemental Power
Elemental Fire
Shatterstone
Vapor Blade
Steam

Move right downt the line. The second Shatter and Blade are going to drop a caster to 20% and burning, then steam lands the kill. If its not a caster, you've caused significant damage and blindness.

Phades · Mar 14, 2007, 04:30 AM // 04:30

The idea to run steam just feels too random as well. Sure you can have burning up on a guy and hit him with steam when the burning sets in, but you can't really control the blind trigger when you need it in the ideal reactionary sense like you would with blinding flash. Also, like mark of rodgort, trying to use steam in that fashion forces you to follow targets and try to make the combo work. Essentially, its like trying to do a dagger combo on cast times, after cast times, and random triggers like hex endings and burning beginings.

If the elemental flame did something on its own and was in e-storage instead, it would be more interesting. I really don't like steam at all though in practice.

chikorita23 · Mar 16, 2007, 03:31 PM // 15:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glitched

Actually, I disagree. A couple of weeks ago I ran a really painful ice spike in RA. It kills quicker than most ele spikers.

Glyph of Elemental Power
Elemental Fire
Shatterstone
Vapor Blade
Steam

Move right downt the line. The second Shatter and Blade are going to drop a caster to 20% and burning, then steam lands the kill. If its not a caster, you've caused significant damage and blindness.

Thanks for your wonderful idea here!! I thought about mixing the combo with Water Elementalist, but totally left out Steam. While I do agree in some intense battle... you might need instant blindness. But overall this build should work in aspenwood, pve and AB

! Definitely gonna try now~

Falconer · Mar 19, 2007, 11:05 PM // 23:05

Ensign... that response is practically a non sequitur. All I was attempting was to make a good faith attempt to utilize the skill so I can better comment on it. It's an unfortunate side effect of the system we operate in, that not every skill can be top-notch and worthy of PvP.

Anyhow, after playing with it a bit, the skill seems to need a water magic rendition of 'immolate' to make it usefull IMO.... a one skill item to pair with it which I'd want to spam on a single target over and over in between casting larger items such as deep freeze. EG: 10 energy, do X damage, target is snared for 1..3 seconds... 3s recharge, 1s cast time....

The problems I'm coming up with are thus... by speccing fire, you're not speccing healing/protection/etc. so you're missing out on heal party, extinguish or similar supports. Also it needs to operate in a framework w/ exterior healing, and in PvP those are limited and in PvE, a snare elly isn't that usefull.

I don't see it as a weak cover hex, I see it as a way to add some single target DPS in between AOE snares.

Re: Steam, the only good use for steam I've found is in searing flames fire builds where the burning is practically a given if you're doing your job so the skill isn't nearly so conditional and you can use it w/ a low-mid spec.

frojack · Mar 20, 2007, 02:04 PM // 14:04

Elemental Flame offers too little burning to make it worth it. Triggering when hexes end is not really that useful on it's own. If your hexing people with water, you generally want them to be immobile for as long as possible. Only seeing the damage at the end makes this forgettable. Triggering at both the start and the end would make it better.

Also to get to 3 seconds of burning (where the damage really starts being noticeably worth it) you need to spec 12 in fire, which is ridiculous in a predominantly water build.

If 3 seconds could achieved at a lower attribute value and the the burning triggered at both the beginning and the end, then it would be worth spec-ing in fire to use this.

Additionally, if you want burning on demand(tm) for Steam, just use Immolate as the 3 second recharge makes this far more attractive now. Don't rely on the dual-condition of Elemental Flame and a water hex.

existing[god] · Mar 20, 2007, 05:58 PM // 17:58

n1 think about using epidemic before/after steam for mass blind or burining depending on the monster / player?? This would work great in pve.

Ensign · Mar 20, 2007, 07:13 PM // 19:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falconer

All I was attempting was to make a good faith attempt to utilize the skill so I can better comment on it. It's an unfortunate side effect of the system we operate in, that not every skill can be top-notch and worthy of PvP.

There's a huge spectrum of skills, in power level, between those that are good but not quite PvP worthy, and skills that are just drek. Elemental Flame isn't complete drek because it is a spammable cover hex and it does deal a little damage. But it still doesn't actually do anything, and that's a problem for any skill and particularly a caster skill.

Raw DPS from skills is only relevant when it comes on a really large scale (Ala, Mark of Rodgort on everyone + fire weapons)...little bits of unfocused degen doesn't matter at all. If Eles ever turn into shutdown hexers with long duration hexes that you want to make stick, I can see Elemental Flame becoming relevant as a cover. But that's the useful property of the thing, the 5/1/5 with a long duration.

Peace,
-CxE